Long ride fueling vs race day

[Andy G]

I think the body adapts to the number of calories that we give it.

So my question is if in an IM (bike) we plan to race on 400 cals per hour should be simulate that in training during 5hr rides. Maybe not early in the year but in the last few months before race day.

Is part of the typical "I was on record pace until my stomach shut down" story related to people taking in more calories then they trained to take in (at a higher intensity).

Thanks

[doc]

its the most important thing .
and the next 2 in line
are drinking
they ride around at 60% , and drinking non stop , stop sart of we go again doing 2 litres some times more
they hit a race and do 1ltr per hour  at 80 to 90% effort and hit the wall ,
then blame the 3rd
salt intake ,
another furphy , that has gone way too far because of the individuality of some .
again load or over load with salt when their body is not adapted to it , throw up from middle of the bike and
youll here
"i could not keep anything down ' but it wasnt the salt  , yeah right .
all year once every 10 days we ride or train as we race , or under what we race .
its a doc ritual .

[gravelrash]

I thought your body can only absorb around 300 calories an hour anyway and from what I understand that is from a human weighing 200 lbs plus or more. I'm married so
I am used to being wrong so please let the responses fly!!!

[bob]

I trained with race day nutrition during almost all hard training days last year. This made me changing some of the original nutrition plans. I also had to train on very cold and very warm days. During these exceptional days one can learn what kind of nutrition works or not. Only a plan that works during highest training stress can work on race day. This is not something to find out a month before IM but I think it has to done way before race day.

[Andy G]

I am not sure what the science says but I can take in 400 cals an hr on the bike with no problem. 168lbs.

Mark Allen use to take in about 600 an hr. I suspect it's trainable and relative to how hard you go. The higher your HR the less you are likely to absorb. One of the reasons so many have stomach problems in IM. Not fit enough for the pace they race at and not used to taking in that many cals at that intensity.

Thanks for the response Doc. So it seems it's something your guys an gals practice often in training.

[doc]

its the no1 thing in ironman .
a ferrari is pretty fast but goes no where with out petrol !

[Sugar]

Something that the Dr.Phil dude on Slowtwitt could learn, among several other things from Doc. 

Now JZ isn't doing IM's anymore    cuz she and her Dr. don't know how to figure it.  sad really.

[doc]

ironman is a state of mind sugar ,
i had some people that had every physical advantage to be great ironman , but they couldnt because ,
it was not their mind set .
you think chris macdonald  is put together for ironman ? or the buscuit ? but what they lack ,they make up in denial . they want it bad , and it helps that
they are hard as nails . i give you a better one cause both can stay !
bella is not a stayer , but its mind over matter for bella , her body just gets trained like a machine  by the little celt ,and "you will do as your told "  i am an ironwomen .

its like, she dont mind  and the pain dont matter .  this is ironman mentallity , and 5 wins last year , shows all .

nothin in her mind about  self preservation .
ironman is a state of mind , and some dont have it !

[gravelrash]

Again, am I confused here? If the body can only absorb no more than 300 calories per hour why take 400 or more?

[BellaBayliss]

Everybody is different.  I am no scientist, but I am sure there are some people out there that take on more food than others, and sometimes that adds up to more than 400 calories an hour.

Have a plan when you race, but sometimes that plan will need to be adjusted, either by eating more or eating less.  Depending on how you feel, the weather conditions, and the course.

[LucasK]

This is a good topic, and something I have recently started working on for IMNZ

My coach earlier this week gave me a recipe and asked me to try it out on our long rides and Thredbo camp. Previously I have been running a pure electrolyte drink with some BCAAs and a gel. But it just feels so hard to get the balance right.

So in an 800ml bidon of water i have the following

3 Scoops Endura Optimizer
http://www.metagenics.com/products/detail.asp?pid=114

1 Scoop Metagenics Pure Opti
https://www.metagenics.com.au/shop/index.cfm?fuseaction=item&id=232

1/2 Scoop Myobolic
https://www.metagenics.com.au/shop/index.cfm?fuseaction=item&id=350

1/2 Scoop Fibroplex Plus
http://www.metagenics.com/products/detail.asp?pid=575

Seems like a lot in a bottle, maybe its too much, figured i'd ask here. It doesn't feel very heavy when i drink it, in fact far from it, but i have no experiece of nutrition over IM

Cheers

Lucas

[doc]

if you could fit a little kfc in that bottle id say there is nothing you aint got covered .
but can you ride and run on all that shit ?
thats the question .
some think they can ride , but its a myth , as the bike doessnt shake you up so much , as the run
but the damage is being done on the bike , believe me .
i lived at thredbo ,
i built the sports hall .there .
they took my plaque off when i was not liked any more,
i can tell you ,  bellas point is spot on
 it mimics no race ,
1450 altitude , and no humidity . can snow in summer .
so be careful as it could give you  false information .
better
do 2 weeks in cairns , and test it out .
if it works there
possibly work every where .
last point i make , that many of the manuals pass over as unimportant .

if it is cold , the tendency is too eat less and drink less ,
so many in these races think they fall to hyperthermia , like swiss last year or uk 70.3

most didnt , in my experience , they didnt eat  and fuel because they thought i am not sweating .
while their body was burning calories over time , trying to warm up , those that were cold were shivering furiously , i still remember  yelling at some in swiss , when i saw goose bumps the size of
divets on them, to drink  and eat ,  the response in most cases was i am just cold .
but later after the race, i had 3 sought me out to say thanks ,
it was a miracle , after i yelled at them they thought my race is over any way so they stopped at  food stations and just ate
one said she had a ham and jambon sanwich and a beer , the other ,i kid you not said he had a bratwurst sausage , they got back on and were proceding to ride back to transition , to call it a day , and all 3 said
they were staggered 10 min later they felt great again so kept on going
all completed , when they thought they were finished at the start of 90 km on the bike .
people
keep it simple , and keep it to what you consume every day , and this really difficult tri puzzle will go away .
just like magic .

[bob]

He doc,

If I have to stick with what I eat daily I will have to go on course with the bratwurst and beer you just mentioned. . The "downside" of living in Germany.

But funnily taking sausage with me during a long ride is just what I was thinking about last week when the cold winter weather took all my energy during a long bike ride. I remember a day with big miles riding in the mountains that started with 33 degrees celsius but that changed to less than 10 degrees and ice-rain within 15 minutes during a thunderstorm at high altitude. After a while I started to get so cold that I could not go on, but 10 minute stop and a huge dried salami sausage was exactly what saved me and got me home.

To keep it going all day with sugar water makes me already sick during a normall day at work. 9 plus hour events might demand getting used to some real food, although bratwurst is not the first thing I am thinking of .

[doc]

bob ,
the big mother salami suasage sandwich is a very underated thing 

[LucasK]

Hi

did 2 long 170km rides through north shore of sydney over the passed 2 days in 30 degree plus heat, climbing every hill I could find (Mt White, Galston's Gorge, Mangrove Mountain, Berrowra Waters, etc, etc) Alternated between 1 bidon of electrolytes and 1 bidon of wierd mixture my coach gave me. I felt fantastic over the first day, pulled up brilliantly, went out for day 2, ame again, no nutrition issues, just body kept firing, mind was crystal clear, power output constant, guess this stuff works.

At no stage did I feel bloated, body seemed to process what was essentially a 300 calorie meal per hour with no problems whatsoever.