2010 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP QUALIFYING STANDARDS

[Hiro]

Hi everyone,
I went to the resistration just now.
I could not get the slot by the rule.
They obey the rule strictly.
I talked with many athletes, of course they disagree with WTC.

[jo]

Top 5 finishers - agree to sit and wait in the chute. When you are all in, cross the line in the right order. Silly idea I know but silly rules too. 

I think this is a fantastic idea, and a great way to stick it to the organisation. Someone needs to start a campaign.

[Sugar]

i think if WTC wants a faster field or whatever they are trying to do.

They need to organize a stricter starndards on getting a 'pro' card with each nation.

sure it was a hot day in malayasia, it was very for everyone. but really, it's like the winners set a super high standard of time to finish against. i love mina...she's knows that. but it's not as if chrissie or bek or macca or faris setting the  high mark. or if you want to play with the big boys and girls then you better be ready.

good for mina and marino for going fast and winning.

as i understand hillary had bike trouble, shame, but that's part of racing. unfortunate as it might be.

maybe there's needs a value to be set for a race, upon the quality of professional racing. like tennis has tiers to their tournaments, with prize money and points value. you can't enter a 4 star tourney if you don't have enough ranking points.

there's so many different angles one can look at this.

doc,
what can 'us' age grouper do help?
not clear on that.

[teamTBBmgr]

While today was a great day of IM racing in Malaysia, this was also the first wakeup call for pro athletes racing Ironman races around the world.

The arrival of the new IM Pro '5% and 8% rules' hit the world of IM racing as a hard reality today.

There will be ton's of different views of what is right or wrong about these rules and today was a harsh reality to see the rules being actually implemented and at the same time for me to watch the pain on the bike for many athletes, the heath and humidty that almost makes you wonder if this 'toughest show on earth' is a healthy one for some who are not so well trained...

But for balancing sake...

#1. IM Hawaii has a lot of pro's that do not make up let's say the top 50 pro athletes in the world for both the male and female race.

WTC is trying to address this.

My heart was broken today when Hiro broke his best ever result and did not get qualified!

But these rules are set for reasons to address the IM Hawaii issue.

Problem also was that Marinio did not know about this new rule and was unaware of what he did with his very strong performance. Over breakfast this morning he mentioned to me he would have finished the race differently knowing that his strong result caused some serious casualities behind him....

Hiro, I feel big time unhappines and pain for you what happened today. At the same time you know how harsh the realities are to qualify for the Olympics because the world simply wants to see the top 50 best athletes in a sport based on a fair set of qualification rules.

You did the right thing today during the race by warning Marinio he was going to 'kill' your dreams and financial benefits for the guys behind you, but he didn't know about the rules...

You paid the prize for being the first one in the world to hit the triggers of these new 5% and 8% rules...

I'm really sorry for you!!

#2. Holding back any price money from hard working pro athletes is day light robbery.

A bad pro will not receive any free accomodation, will not receive any transport allowance, will still have to pay his WTC lincense fee, so why punish these people so hard???

If you as the race organizer announce a US$50k prize money race, than you have no choice to pay out US$50k in price money.

Try and tell a couple of boxers or Ultimate Fight Champions after their fight "Sorry you won, but you did not win well enough to earn the full prize money... "

I think the organizers would think twice applying those new rules 

Well, as I can read earlier in this topic, they have not met an angry Bella yet 

So withholding price money is in 'my world' illegal and quite criminal and so this can be fixed in a few ways:

a. You have to ensure you don't financially 'kill' all those that could not keep up with the very best athlete of that day. If you send Chrissie to any race now, she will feel the pressure of racing too hard as she knows she litterly puts the competition 'out of business'. Nice feeling for doing so well... So put a 5% rule in based on the #2 finnisher.

b. If you really want to make those hurt that maybe should not be a pro or simply had a bad day in the office, then at least roll up the prize money to the #1 finisher. So Marinio today would have won another US$12k which was not paid to #3 - #8.

c. State your objectives very clear by communicating "Athletes and organizers, the prize money we will save with this new 8% rule goes to the top 15 pro athletes in IM Hawaii or we create some financial compensation for the top 3 age groupers in IM Hawaii". The race organizers have collected this prize money from the event sponsors already, so one must be fair and explain what will happen to these funds!

What was also painfully obvious today in Malaysia is the fact how badly these new rules have been communicated and explained around the world of triathlon. Very few people knew what was going on and in that sense IM Malaysia was a harsh confrontation with a new reality with everybody. It was an unpleasant experience for quite a few to say the least and made the roll down meeting this morning a lot less ahppy one then I have ever seen before!

So what's next:

1. There will soon be a first pro athlete that will sit down before the finnish shute. This will not be appreciated by the organizers, but sooner or later it will happen and do the sport no good. No fan likes to see the peloton sit down in a Tour de France etappe...

2. The number of pro athletes that can still reach IM Hawaii will indeed be reduced by some 50% and have the effect the organizer wanted to have. This is a reality that will happen and diffcult to argue with.

3. Possibly WTC will take all the prize money savings and redirect it back to the top 10 in Hawaii prize money. This will make the pro field even narrower and pay the few athletes top money. I have never seen this happen in tennis or golf, but it simply depends on what you want to achieve with these rules (e.g. build your brand, increase your revenue or reduce your cost base).

4. This whole matter could affect the M-Dot races a lot as athletes move over to other type of races, reduce the excitement of the various races with pro's and age grouper's along side at the race start. This in the end will not only affect individual races, but could also have an effect on the brand and should be very careful considered and evaluated.

5. The pro athletes should be proactive, constructive and positive to work towards a win-win solution with WTC. There seems to be a letter being prepared by a few athletes I was told at the race party at the finish line, and that seems the best way to start a meaningful dialogue between WTC and the pro's which is in the interest of all parties.

I'm afraid the last word is not said about this topic...

Let's hope all parties are willing to accept that some change is needed, but we must all be flexible in funding the right solutions!

[StephenBayliss]

I really don't care about the Hawaii rule.

But not paying the prize money, Alex is right it is criminal.  It is bad enough they are only paying the top 5 this year. 

But it is completely disgusting that they won't pay the top 5 in the race,  I don't care if is is an "age grouper " or a "pro"  (I have never seen the point in the different categories anyway).  Just pay the prize money to the people out there busting a gut to pick up the measley money on offer anyway  .

[Mina]

Heya guys- it is great that this has been brought up on the forum- the more athletes talking about and discussing it, the better. We all need to stand united on this front.
I was devastated to discover that Hillary had missed out on prize money by 2mins- what is our racing coming to when a PODIUM position results in no prize money- it is a bloody disgrace. And to see Poor Hiro have the race of his life and then no spot to Kona.  The new percentage rules are crazy and are going to destroy our sport.
When I paid my $785 for my pro license I thought 'well maybe it will be a good thing'. I was under the impression that there would be drug testing at every IM race from here on. There was definitely NO drug testing at this event. They have started the program but obviously just decided that IMM was not worth testing.
Luke McKenzie, Terrenzo and Macca have all been tested out of competition under the new drug testing program so i know it has been implemented....just not implemented at this race. There needs to be consistency across all races ay all times. I am not even in the drug testing pool. I was in it but then received an email about a month ago saying I was no longer required to fill out a whereabout form- basically letting me know that I will not be getting tested any time soon out of competition- how ridiculous!
It is going to get to the point now where athletes will not enter races that some of the top pros have signed up for- simply because they know there is a strong chance they might walk away with nothing. Who in this world goes to work, puts in a a hard day at the office and then does not get paid for it?? No job I have ever heard of.
I agree with one of the points made- if you want to improve the standard of racing then do not take the $785 from everyone- have strict guidelines for who can buy a pro license. But do not take their money and then turn around and prevent them from making a living. You cannot have it both ways.

[BellaBayliss]

All very well said Belinda.

And BIG congrats on your great win.  (did try to email you, but still my email to you bounces back)
all the best,
Bella

[DamienC]

Guys, my heart bleeds for you.  To put out all that effort and basically to come away with nothing is, as Alex says, daylight robbery.

It's going to take a collective stance by all the pros to get WTC to change their stance.  As we've seen in the past couple of years, they seem to have taken decisions without fulling thinking them through  (wetsuit and compression sock rules), and then having to retract and modify them to suit reality.

Let's hope this gets sort out ASAP.

[teamTBBmgr]

An important matter regarding this topic is what the age groupers think.

The pro's of course will fight for their right, that is a no brainer.

But what do age groupers think on this forum:

1. Do you enjoy having pro's at the finish line next to you?
     - Does it provide some level of inspiration?
     - Does it show us what the human body and mind is capable of?
     - Is it fun to now and then rup shoulder with some of the world's leading triatletes?

2. Would it impact your impression of a race if there is no longer a league of professional athletes who fight it out in the same race as you do?
There are lot's of fun and family races where there is no pro field at all. Can be great fun for a certain part of the market, but the higher-end (Full and Half IM races) could lose a lot of face and sex appaeal if there simply is no longer a pro field at all.
    - Do you have a look at the start list of the pro's for a race you are doing?
    - Do you think its cool if a race has the Olympic champion or an IM Champion racing in your race?

I'm interested to see what you all think, because if we all see value in having a small field of pro's at the races, then we as age groupers should take part in this discussion and provide some moral support and add our voice to the pro's around the world, as they now need it more than ever...

[Huggy Bear]

As an age grouper I'll answer your 2 questions-
1. Do I enjoy having the pros at the finish line next to me?
 - I'd be surprised to see one at the finish next to me! Though I ran behind Belinda and a few others at Antwerp (2 years?) ago, but I was one lap behind. It was cool to be part of the show, with the motorbikes, cameras and all that. And we get to compete on the course at the same time as the elite of the sport. I believe this is unique to long distance triathlon.
2. Would it impact your impression of a race if there is no longer a league of professional athletes who fight it out in the same race as you do?
- It's not the pros that attract me to a race, it's nice but not near the top of the list. It's the organisation, course. atmosphere and 'quality' of the race. IM do this well, they are a succesful brand in this respect.
BUT, BUT, BUT.........
I think there is a much more important question here for the age groupers. Do you want to give your money to an organisation that is, lets face it, being 'unethical'?
These pros are good enough to pay and be given a pro card and race as a pro BUT not good enough to win pro prize money??? But WTC allocated the money to pay prize money in their business plan but this is a loophole to turn it to profit.
AND they use these pros to promote their events directly and indirectly. e.g Wongstar is on front page of ironman.com.

WTC may be shooting themselves in the foot though. Pros wont race with them if there's no $. Maybe no pros = less kudos = less $ for WTC? However I believe people will always do IM for the brand as its the new 'got to do' thing.
Change takes time, other brands are emerging and growing. Pros should go to them, it's maybe the only thing they can do. AG'ers may follow. But for the pros at least they wont be part of the thing that's screwing them.

[DamienC]

My 2cents:
1. I love racing against people who are full time athletes (I reserve the term "pro" for those full time athletes that both give and take from the sport, as per TeamTBB and the community projects that everyone gets involved with).  I enjoy beating people who I shouldn't be able to beat.  But I REALLY enjoy the little bit of TV time I might get as I stalk the leaders (generally the females nowadays!). 

2. We have become so accustomed to having pros at our races, that it isn't really a consideration anymore.  But if I had to choose between two races, one with a pro field and one without, and I want to race, then I'll head off to test myself against the best.

But then again, these are based on my own competitive spirit.  Maybe when I'm all grown up, I'll rather enjoy a more leisurely... NOPE, I'll always want to test myself against that best, even if I need a calendar to time myself!

[bob]

I think their should be no difference between pro and age groups. Age is not a good excuse for your performance. Everyone should race the best they can, they should pay the first 5 to 10 at the finish line and send the first 20 athletes to kona, regardless of what age you are. Then give the remaining slots to the much older athletes so they can qualify in a race with the younger ones as well. This way everyone is the real race, and the best of the best can go to kona. And I like a competitive field, so I get confronted with the real world class. WTC is just making things worse now. I hope you guys really go sit down in front of the finish line waiting. Next IM all pros should get together day before the start and organize this. You need to be sure though there is no cheater in the field . That should put the WTC to shame and it gets really hard for them to sell their race to sponsors. All they are interested in is the money, so that will change things really fast. But pros have to do more then just complaining on forums.

[rev3tri]

We will be doing our best to try and clean up this mess!  Come out and race with us, we would love to have all pros join us!  Rest assured, we will pay 10 deep and pros will walk away with the check in hand.

www.rev3tri.com

[rynie4]

 As an age grouper, I love to see the pro's at the races. I don't feel that they have to chat with me ,but it is awesome to watch athletes compete at a world class level in any sport.
  I hope Rev3 can grow quickly and become real competition for Mdot in the very near future. Their prize money is substantial and after racing in Conneticut,U.S last year,It truly provided a fantastic environment for all the athletes. Everybody felt like a pro!

[doc]

guys ,
the major problem is not pros getting together , but age groupers wanting a professional arm in their sport , and to make it known , that they dont think the direction is right, for the future .

i personally have stated ,that i believe the brand could become one of the iconic ones in the world,
and as such the financials they now do out side of racing , is miniscuel at this moment .

what direction , they now take ,will dictate if that is ever achieveable .

there is a current train of thought inside wtc , that it should be an age group only franchise .
this is not the only train of thought , but one that resonates , at decision time .

even , the current other race series , still miss the point .
people pay good money to get to races , pay hotels and then get offered peanuts for 10th
while offering big money to the already well paid at least in our sport for the winners .
it would be far better
to start at the back
while this is not tennis  first round loser  after tax at the aussie open flew out with 14 ,ooo
dollars .
thats the key .
the powers that be complain about the depth and the ability levels , while ne ver asking an expert in this field , how to fix .

if 10th place has 5,000 us  up for grabs , in time there will be 20 real solid athletes there fighting for it
at every race .
if you cn run 5 10th places
you earn enuff to feed your self while you race and travel and can train full time to get the  performance levels  the wtc  are looking for .
if tht means  1st is only  8,000 who cares to start with .
the top guys will still get the top sponsor dollars ,
and we will develop  a pool of great pros  that will all be much closer to the best athletes .
ironman athletes need time to develop .
they need  to train full time ,
as some one rightfully  said ,
the sport will only be available at pro lev el  to people who can afford financially to earn  nothing
for yrs  on end .