brandon and once a runner

[doc]

as usual , the slow talkin texan  with the fast moving brain comes up with his summation at the end of his blog
how far have we come .
when one is discussing the long distance running issues , as his reading material was written in 1978 ,
and the answer is for us intellegent western societies whitees , that like the rest of our society , is looking to science to save us in so  many ways , we have not come any where but gone backwards .
mean while our african neighbors who have held on to the long held belief  that hard word and self sacrifice will provide you with improvements over time like it has done down the the generations ,
so the western nations have at best stood still while the incremental gains are made by people who in traINING  camps  dont have ice machines  , they dont have physios , they dont even have electricity ,
they wash there running kit in a near by river .
once they strike it rich  , with their running ability , they buy homes and land but when it comes to serious time  most of the continued successful ones  head back to the training camps to lay their ground work for the seasons assaults on the richest races around the world .
back in the late70s  early 80s
i can give you a little history , that they lost their best youth and up and coming athletes to american colleges but the highlighted  african failures were so startling that their best decided to stay at home and not lose their ability to western universities and thoughts .
 i can remember like it was yesterday  a lesson in this , when i was attending the institute of sport in canberra in the 90s
we had the tri team based there
and out best marathon runner lisa martin  had married a kenyan, yobes ondieki , and they were trying to figure out the best living arrangements for their partnership , so they had decided to give it a go in canberra her town , i was running some at that point so i would join in the easy runs and lectures to learn what i could
i was privvy to one  " lecture " to yobes by our estimed head distance coach for australia .
" you need to get some structure into your work yobes " he said , much to my astonishment ," think how much you will improve on your fellow kenyans , if you work your work ethic into a more scientific based program " i watched yobes face , and it looked like he was confronted by an alien , he was polite said nothing ,as the coach rattled on "  you just dont rest enuff or do enuff slow  work yobes , to fullfil
your  dreams , "  again yobes sat there this time he looked over at his wife and she gave him a little hand signal to calm him that all was ok , and then he said " thank you  dick ,  ill think on it ."
dick then  rattled off to the rest of his elite long distance squad tomorrows work out , it was going to be tuff and very very stressful so
tomorrows easy 10 km  in the morning needs to be easy " no racing as in the after noon we are going

4x 1mile  at anearobic  threshold , recovery as you need" ,  i looked at yobes instinctively and his face looked at his wifes , then he asked " if it is possible dick for him to do his with only 400m jog between each as this is how he does this set at home " dick looked at him and said yobes im expecting from the boys 4m16 to 4 min 14 if they having a greAT DAY  but for you  i think  4m12 " its not easy tomorrow yobes its like a kenyan track day " yobes shrugged and said ill run 4m12 for you of just 400 rest dick "
and so it was .
so i thought i must be there for tomorrow .
so the first run we all kicked off light banter no one running hard i found my self running next to the great one with ease , in fact he was doin it tuffer than me i thought , smiling good natured man , he said
today coach will be good day , and so we trundled the 10 km i would think in about 40 min
our group with yobes and his wife were not the first group .
the younger aspiring guys must have ran it in around 36  m  not hard for them  then another break off group ran around 38 dick was in that one and a few of australias best ,
but yobes just wandered around  and we camt to a halt  .
then i had a run session with a couple of triathletes and so i was at the track at 10 .30  am
i was suprised when i got there to see lisa and yobes there , lisa a marathon champion was whipping out 32 sec 200 s  with no discernable rest period she would belt one out then cut across the middle as it would seem 200 float was too long for her ,
but the major point was yobes here he was tearing around the track , doing 2 lappers , and it was obvious this was not at  any speed known to australian distance men
he was well into the session by the looks of him so, i said nothing got my little triathletes going and was doing the session they had planned , lisa who the word stoic  was designed for, gave me a nod , nothing more than a acknowledgement glance , and got about her work , meanwhile yobes jogged passed on his recovery that looked like no more than 400 m to me said   " good morning coach  , please dont tell dick about this , but  i cant become  world champion  doin that work " i said your secrets safe with me
then i watched in awe as he reeled off  about 5x 800m  all in 2 min , as he went past i said
" how many you doing ?" he replied  dont know  may be 8 to 10 see how i feel we got the hard set this afternoon
so this coach was getting a language lesson in kenyan , he is doing or he ended up doin 10 800  in 2min
and the hard session was coming .
ok , i then made the mistake of asking lisa on her easy 100m how many she doing , she snapped back " no idea " so i shut  up from there on in .
so no more was said i trained my guys they finnished then joined up together and didnt get into a car but jogged off home i imagine which was 4 km from the track .
so of course i had to be at the track that evening .
to see the mess that yobes was going to be in for dicks tuff set .
he and lisa turned up , she sheepishly in a cold calculating manner said sorry , " i dont like to talk when im training , and i didnt know how many i was doing or the time , yobes has taught me to listen to my body it tells you the speed , not the watch  or how  many your legs tell you that , so its new for me but its working .
so the sombre mood has setteld on all the aussies  now this is going to be tuff
and the atmosphere , you could cut it with a knife .
lisa say to dick " im going to do my milers like yobes 400 m only and im doing 6 i run marathons 4  is for the 5 and 10 k people , " dick  knew strait away you dont argue with her , but he turned to yobes and said i want only 4 yobes  as im looking for 1m3 laps and with the short rest thats going to be tuff enuff
"
the answer came yes coach no problem
and so the distance girls  ran the first one with lisa  and then broke off for their 7 min or what ever rest they were taking it could have been one every 10 min but i forget .
then ,
the guys ran the first one with yobes  he  hit 4m10  the ran 4 m 12 and dicks eye balls nearly popped  out of his head
"too fast too fast you have 3 more , now go and warm down of that so you dont tighten up "
yobes was gone on his lap recovery dick just shook his head ." they just dont get it"
to cut a long story short
dick got his 4 1 milers of his boys and it was great work he said all 4 min 14  they had PROGRESSED NICELY  the lactates  were encouraging  , he said to me .
mean while yobes ondieki
went        1                      2                          3                              4
           4m10                   4min8                   4m 6                      4 min 2.5

all off  around  90 sec rest i would summise

he came jogging back    after the last lap  easy   and said  , " ill jog  home dick , its been a good day "
dick  jumped up and said  yobes , " see what is possible when  you rest properly ,
yobes  graciously said " thank you dick, it was a good day "
he jogged passed me  , stopped and made the shoosh  symbol in front of his mouth , he said coach
your group swam this morning  they run with me at lunch  and now they bike ,
you under stand  , but dont tell dick , as western run coaches will never get it, all their science make sure no white man will beat a kenyan  "

there is an epilogue ,
on a nite   at the world championships in japan , the expectations were high that the kenyans would suffer in the oppressive  humidity , a pundit said before the 5000m " the kenyans preffered to prepare in the home land and fly in late to try and beat the humidity but i feel this is a mistake as the rift valley is less than 10 % humidity here its 93% . we could see some upsets .
well the start of the 5000m  was off and the first lap was so slow  like a 1m 12 all people were thinking humidity be careful .
the start of the 2nd lap  a kenyan  burst from the pack and litterally took off, and he kept going
the next lap he clocked 1min  for the 400 , pundits going wild "this is in sane , this is insane he will be lucky to finnish " next lap 1min
after 4 laps the runner  had ran 4min o2  for the mile  1 lap after the start , he then proceeded to reel off  1min3 an tiring 4s for  3 more of the 12  laps
nobody  could cope or challenge him,  the  world had a new  champion
yobes ondieki
true story  and as a little  side dish
first man to break the unbreakable 27 min  barrier    the great yobes ondieki .

but  shoosh  dont tell dick    he wouldnt understand .

[paddy]

And not a stop watch in sight ...really inspirational stuff... i think that story could be applied to alot of aspects to our western lives. my 4 year old told me yesterday he was doing an ironman with me and i said how was he going to do that, he was too small he replied daddy i will just run and swim and ride my bike with you .....simple really

[Matthieu O’Halloran - "M@"]

Hey interesting story, now my turn 

When I was in Kenya, I heard this:

Once the Kenyans came onto the world seen.
Then started getting attention for their hill reps.
Even the steeple chasers had put up a steeple on a slope!

Some of the Europeen coaches where asking the Kenyans what was optimal distance?
For a hill rep? What gradient? What surface? When? How many reps? Ect.

So Kenyans say "our hill is about 127 strides up"
Europe coaches never seen that hill.
Where wondering, what distance is that?
They calculate aprox stride lenght, height and so on.

Thinking and thinking about that distance?
Why that distance for hill reps?
It must be optimal, since they are doing it.
And run so fast.

So a while later, Euro coaches asked
"WHy do you only run up 127 strides?"
Kenyan responded
"BEcause after 127 strides, you start going down hill"

The Kenyans where merly doing their best.
With what they got, where they got it!

[cervelo-van]

Love that story, Doc. Whatever happened to Lisa?

[doc]

xcellent matty ,
im sure you got many more , please share them
i got a few as i stayed or followed 3 when they were paid to come race in australia .

lisa  started her athletic career as a 400 m hurdler , and finnished it with an olympic silver medal in the marathon .
what a career chiselled out with just blood sweat  and tears .

[Brandon Marsh - "-Tex"]

I talk slow so others can do a better job of listening...most times it doesn't work.

It was a great book.  I especially liked the quote about Runner's World.  It's like most of the Tri-Mags these days.  Same people, same stories, the next greatest workout, what's going to make you faster in 15 minutes a week, etc.  Seems like those who just put their heads down, do the work, get the results tend to get overlooked most times.  Even though I'm a numbers guy and like gadgets, it seems that at times folks think that they will replace the training.  Or folks have them, but don't actually learn to use them to see how they could better their training.

[doc]

hihii
brandon talks real slow to me  hihihi
as i talk too fast for him ,
it took him and amy 3 months to understand a word i said ,amy still struggles
as sutto speak has its challenges

[Matthieu O’Halloran - "M@"]

Hey okay!

When I first got to Kenya.
There was a group of high level German distance runners staying where I was staying.

So I though it would be a good idea to join them.
Since I did not know the run routes or anybody for that matter.

A few days into it, we went for a mid day track sesison.
The dirt track as about 2km aways from camp.

So I followed the Germans brisk 4min per km pace.
Not sure if it was the chay tea or the altitude.
But these guys where moving.

Suddenly we passed a group of Kenyans.
And we passed them like their where standing still.
They where doing the classic Kenyan shuffle.
Pole-Pole as they would say in Swahily.

Once at the track.
The Germans invited me for some very structured strides and drills.
You know the ABC's and so on.

It took a bit of time and some enegergie out of us.

During that time, the Kenyans finally strolled in.
Layed around in the grass, looked around, called out at a few runners on the track.
Go up and did a few strides as we where finally finishing our drills and strides.

One of the Kenyan's asked
"Mizungo what you do for running?"

One of the Germans quickly replied
"10x1km in 2:45 on 4min send off"

So we all started all together.
I was off the back from the start.

But I had a great view of the battle going on.
The Germans where keened on leading the group.
But as expected, mid way into the set.
Germans where blowing up left and right.
While th Kenyans kicked down the pace under 2:40

So after some hand shakes and humbling experience.
We ran once again brisk pace back to Camp.
Where at lunch, the Germans discussed how the Kenyans would run much much better.
If they only did some drills and a better warm up 

[doc]

matty thats a real education story , keep dropping those little gems in 

[BrianShea]

Great thread....make this one a sticky!!

[DamienC]

I was fortunate to spend a week training with the Kenyan National XC Team in the buildup to the Worlds in 96, and that was something that struck me too, just how slowly they ran their warmups, warmdowns and easy recovery runs.  And how little they cared about the stopwatch.  They would run repeats at the track, jog their determined rest distance, and then go again.  The only people who kept track of what they were doing were the coach and his assistant (well, mostly the assistant, I don't think I saw the coach take his eyes off the guys for even a second).  And they never called a split, just let the guys run, with the occassional instruction from the coach, and that seemed more tactical than anything else.

[QR]

if stop watches are of no use during training, why every (tri)athlete races with one?

[DamienC]

Bare in mind, that when you are racing at that level, and especially in XC, you aren't racing the clock, you're racing the course and your opposition.  A watch means nothing in the greater scheme of things.  Next World XC Champs, look and see how many of the Africans wear a watch, versus the Europeans and Americans.  Then look who is racing, and who is chasing.

[JamesCunnama]

if stop watches are of no use during training, why every (tri)athlete races with one?

I never race with a watch. And don't train with one either if I know the approximate length of a route.

I think the point is not that watches have no use, but that they should be treated as only one of many types of feedback, not the only or even the most important feedback. If, as with the Kenyans in training close to a race, the most important factor in a session is effort, time is irrelevant. In fact, it can be negative if the time feedback does not reflect the perceived effort, as is so often the case during a taper, and this knocks confidence before the race.

[Matthieu O’Halloran - "M@"]

Hey well after the Germans left, not to long after a small and skinny Ducth man arrived into camp.
His name was Luc, and he was his countries top marathoner.
And it was maybe his 20th trip to Kenya.

Once he settled in, he invited me for a long run.

The majority of all the runners in Iten where on the same running schedual.
Which meant long run on Saturday.
They all meet at a T intersection at the bottom of the Bull hill.

So we woke up early and stared to walk to the meeting point.
Iten is small.

He told me "Shake everbodies hand and introduce yourself"
And that where also meeting some of his Dutch teamates.
Who happened to be "very Dutch" he sayed, what ever that means!

We got there, and maybe 70 runners waiting.
Woah, I started to introduce myself and shake as many hands as I could.
But I did make sure I told I was from Canada.
I just dont any assumtions, you know!!

As we started running, Luc stayed with me at the back.
He toldme how there was some very good runners in this group.
800m to marathon specialist and where doing 30km negative split in the Singora forest.

All of a sudden, his Dutch teamates came up from behind us.

After maybe 5km, the Dutch started to make some noise on an uphill.
They could have been having a bad cough or bronchitis.
Thats what it sounded like, but they went to the front as soon as we hit the uphill.

Luc told me, there did not want to run this slow.
Their heart rates where to low on their HR monitors.
And it was a waste of running.

As they went to the front.
And off the front, some of the younger Kenyans tried to go with them.
Only to be grabbed by the older Kenyans and pushed back into the group.
Which was moving slowly.

At about 10km and top of hill, we did a 150 degree turn.
And started going down hill pretty quick.
I was struggling to hand on, put I was having fun running in the forest.

Luc stayed with me, as he did not want me to get lost.
And he was still acclimatizing to the altitude.

At about 20km, we turn left onto the main road.
And all I could see was a main group maybe 3km ahead and some stragglers in between.
Luc told me, thats when they really crank up the pace.

I did my best in the final uphill and stopped where all the Kenyans had stopped.
As a local eatery with a great view of the Rift Valley sunrise!
It was know for its porage (millet/honey/lemond)

Then this tall and skinny Kenyan man with sharp cheakbones came to me.
He introduced himself as Robert.
He offered me some porage to me and Luc as it was the Kenyan secret recovery drink.

No signs of the other Dutch runners.

Robert told me,
"you must learn to run slowly before you learn to run quickly"
"Just like a baby, who learns to crawl, before he learns to walk"

Funny enuff, those ambitious Dutch runners got lost in the Singora forest...
And that tall/skinny fella named Robert, went on to win the Boston marathon a few months later.
For the 3rd time!