TT Bike position

[doc]

bike set ups
should take into consideration , every thing not just the ride
we ride a certain way so we run efficiently after it
im not going to list every girl that i have trained to break 5 houirs but i can tell you we would need a lot of space
and i dont need to talk men as our girls ride faster than nearly all the men
every one of them has had their positioned questioned  by nearly every one
only in this sport , would such out ragous success , not be  followed , of course im pleased it isnt
keeps my girls kicking arse ,
the situastion you find your self in as your agreessive in some of the protocals but still ride like a cyclist
sit like one  and think like one .
sitting on a saddle like one  then have and aggressive front end position will never be pain less
we havenmt even mentioned crank length , but as you have heard from all your advice no one has mentioned that in the bike position issue
what cranks, where you are behind the bottom bracket , how you sit on the seat , what is your drop at the front
 how much gap between your shoulders and knee at the top of the pedal stroke how wide your arms in aero position
, how much do you sit in aero position , and what cadence you use while being in a time trial position
all has a bearing of how and where you sit on the seat .
you dont have  a good feel for the pedals
so dropping it 10 to 15
and getting fit at it
will improve you 10 min .
hope that helps some

the doc

[kevb]

Thanks Doc

[endoverend]

Good advice from Doc however it aint going to solve your immediate bad back & numb tackle is it Kev?

So, you could go out and buy an new saddle but as you mention thats no g'tee it'll work for you and perhaps you don't have the time to dick-about (I assure you, it'll piss you off even more after chucking more good money at it with no result).

Interesting that you had to switch bikes - considering the time needed to get your TT bike fit right (+ you'll always be tweaking whatever) - I'd be tempted to do as you say, just ride your road bike in the race & get your head back on track!

I may be tempted however to first try and set up the TT rig as close as possible to your road bike - think about matching the contact point measurements (seat height, tilt, position to bars, position in relation to the BB etc, etc).
Also, you may be doing this anyways, you gotta lube up that chamois dude! Assos arse creme is your friend plus I find that a minimal pad, i.e. your tri-shorts, works way better than thick cycling ones.

You in the UK? If so did you see UK-IM on TV recently and check out Aaron's position?  Exactly what Doc was on about, well, if you ignore Diana's uber-biker aero position that is! 

Laters,
Dave

[kevb]

Dave,
Your totally right, in every aspect. I have matched it as best I can the only difference in the height of the bars, Ie fork stem lower, I do think it a pressure point issue, luckily one of my friends has a ISM saddle which she is going to lend me, but I also think you are right about using my road bike, I feel the confidence will return, it may be a case of get Barcelona over and done with then get back on TT bike with no pressure of a race on the horizon and just keep tweaking as much as possible,
Also yes I'm lubed to the limit, butt cream a must!
Yes I'm in UK saw  victory on TV it was excellent will go back and have another look at his riding position.
Once again thanks for help and support
Kev ( sore bum)

[DamienC]

I'm a bit late to the party, but a couple of things I did see from your two youtube clips:

1. You seem to ride with your heels/ankles turned in (i.e. feet pointing out) and your knees, though going straight up and down, tend to point away from the frame, as opposed to parallel to it.  In other words, your knees at the top of your stroke seem to be wider than your hips.

2. Your hands are quite close together, but your elbows are quite wide apart.

3. It looks like you are "pushing back" onto your pelvis as you pedal, almost a back to forth rocking.  You can't see your upper arms and shoulders, but I would assume they are fairly tense/tight as you ride?

I see you also say that your bars are lower than your road bars (where you are comfortable).  Maybe lifting your bars into a slightly less aggressive position (closer to your road bars) will shift that pressure point a bit so you are back onto your sit bones and off the perinium.

[doc]

see boys thats why im the doc .
here is what id do
id take the road bike out
and kill it
stone dead , never to be ridden again
and say
well now i only the time trial one
and get up and go boy its me and you .
there is no turning back .

you will find  it will fit much  quicker than you would expect
 

[kevb]

I think your right doc, it's me or him! he won round 1, he won't win another!
Thanks to everyone who has helped me with this pain in the arse situation (literally)
Kev,
Oh Damen, my knees point out at top of pedal stroke cause I have a fat belly

[Brandon Marsh - "-Tex"]

Bike position questions on the internet are usually a no win situation as still pictures or sometimes trainer videos do not give the whole picture as a lot of athletes have more trouble riding the trainer in aero that they do on the road.  So, my $0.02 is not a whole lot different.  Try different positions to see what seems to work the best.  But, there are a couple of things that are counter intuitive to tri bike fit...

- the seat height between road and tri might be similar, but that is about it.  Most athletes ride their TT saddle a bit higher than their road saddle since it is a bit more forward...geometry and math to get all geeky.
- putting the seat in the same position around the bottom bracket between a road and tri bike defeats the purpose of having a tri bike.  The tri bike seat will generally be quite a bit more forward than a road bike seat.  Also do not worry about where your knee falls on the pedal axle.
- the further forward the saddle is, generally the lower your bars are going to be, or at least should be.  So starting with your bars the same height as your road bars or level with your seat is generally not the best approach.  You want your upper body supported by your arms and shoulders on a tri bike.

If you change to an ISM saddle, your 'taint' area will probably get worse before it gets better, sometimes it can take as long as a few weeks.

If you get a cobb saddle, they have the best return policy in the business.  More cush, go with the V-Flow Max.  A lot of the guys ride the SHC saddle as it is really narrow and it is easy to move around on for uphills and downhills. 

[kevb]

Thanks Brandon,
Kev

[rebekahkeat]

yup Im def with Doc and Brandon on this one guys...been using a TT bike only since I started IM racing 5 years ago and why train in a different position to what you race in....train on your TT get comfy and dont move!!...On our long rides we are not allowed to sit up we stay in TT position the whole time...pretty dumb really?I think NOT...as Doc says 'keep it simple'!

[Stotan]

Lets hear it Doc, cranks, bb position & all what makes a good triathlon bike?

Give us some hints...

[terrence]

my old coach said use what you got, avoid tri mags ,train more think less about what looks good put your energy into training last but not least there no way forward without pain

[triman10]

Hi James & Doc,

Attached are pictures & videos you requested, i have tweaked my postiton a bit this morning, it feels better, but the main issue was saddle area, you know, the no-mans land in between butt and balls.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQjZaRhp5R8 Front View

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6to7YCZKs8 Side View

i have 6 week to challenge Barcelona, so i need to sort this out or do the race on my road bike.

G'day Kevin,

I'll go against the grain of salt here, LOL

Level your seat....the angle of your seat (point downwards down) is going to force you to push back and take your body natural weight off you pedals. In laymans terms sit on your pedals more, less on your seat.

Look at the angle of your back, that is also pushing you back and more onto your seat. Nothing is leaning towards your upper body, that one is obvious.

Also look at your seat height, looks too low, thus adding more body weight onto your seat and less on your pedals. Try standing up from a bean bag without your hands and then try standing up from a seat. The bean bag is impossible, when we can't engage our body weight, that is what you look like. Sorry, poor analogy I know.

Also look at your upper body and your arms, they look like they are carrying zero load, you're big guy, distribute the weight more. Resting on your upper body is comfortable and can help you ride more on your pedals (natural application of power) if you get your angles right.

There are some utube clips in the side panel (when I click on your link) which show guys with good possies, you don't need to be flexible, you just need to get the angles right to produce the power.

Did you set yourself up like that?

Paul

[kevb]

Hi Paul,
Yes all done myself, with help of a friend taking pics, thanks for your input, I am working through to resolve this nightmare
Kev

[Sugar]

yup Im def with Doc and Brandon on this one guys...been using a TT bike only since I started IM racing 5 years ago and why train in a different position to what you race in....train on your TT get comfy and dont move!!...On our long rides we are not allowed to sit up we stay in TT position the whole time...pretty dumb really?I think NOT...as Doc says 'keep it simple'!

you and i may...but i know some others that don't and complain about there sore backs, gee wonder why....