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Author Topic: head and foot over time  (Read 1008 times)
Sugar
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« on: August 23, 2011, 03:14:43 PM »

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2011/08/23/science/23conversation.xml

very interesting...

love your perspective brett.

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doc
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« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2011, 08:22:37 AM »

sorry
but cant get it to play on my machine
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running-geek
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« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2011, 12:53:09 PM »

Try http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/23/science/23conversation.html (not optimistic, but it might work)

relevant bit:

"Q. In your lab, you study the phenomenon of barefoot running. How did that become part of your portfolio?

A. About a year after the Nature paper came out, I gave a public lecture where this bearded guy, with only socks and duct tape on his feet, came up to me and said, "I don't like to wear shoes when I run - how come?" He'd become a barefoot runner because his feet hurt in shoes. The man was "Barefoot Jeffrey," a Harvard grad who owned a bicycle shop in Jamaica Plain. What a great question!

Obviously, people had run barefoot for millions of years before shoes, socks, Nikes. I'd sometimes wondered if some of the sports injuries that runners get are related to an issue connected to how people run in shoes - the heel strike, it's called. When most of us run, we land hard on our heels, and that causes a shockwave and it travels up your leg and eventually hits your head, which jiggles really fast. Those of us who wear shoes think that's normal, to land with a big jolt.

So I asked Barefoot Jeffrey to come to the lab and show me how he ran. He ran in this beautiful way that was completely collision-free. Light as a feather. When he hit the ground, he didn't land on his heel. Instead, he landed on the ball of his foot, and there was no shock wave that hit his head. That led us to producing another paper in Nature where we actually studied barefoot runners like Jeffrey.

We also went to Africa and went to people who'd never worn shoes. What we discovered was that people who run barefoot tend to run differently than people who wear modern shoes; they run in a much lighter and gentler way because it would hurt to run the way people do in shoes.

Q. And what's the value to knowing this?

A. To prevent sports injuries. We think that one reason runners crash into the ground is because the shoe makes it possible to hit the ground hard. My lab is currently studying the Harvard track team to measure if runners who use a barefoot style are injured less than runners who land on their heels.

Q. Do you run barefoot?

A. Only in the summer. Obviously, you cannot run barefoot in a New England winter! Then, I use a shoe that brings me more toward the barefoot style. It's called a "minimal shoe," and it's more like a glove for the foot. Some people tell me it looks silly. But I like the way it feels. And I love running barefoot when I can. You get all this wonderful sensory pleasure from your feet. You feel the grass and the sensation of the earth. You get bathed by sensation. There are a lot of sensory nerves in the feet.

Right now, every sports gear company is now developing a line of these minimal shoes. One company, I should inform you, has helped fund some of my laboratory research, though I've not had anything to do with their product."
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kristymuir
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« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2011, 04:11:28 PM »

Hi Running Geek,

If you find this stuff interesting you should read "Born to Run" by Christopher Mcdougall.  Great story but towards the end the author delves into the research of human anatomy and the way we were "meant" to run, which was originally barefoot.

Speaking from a physiotherapists' point of view, I couldn't agree more - we were born to run like that.  But show me a modern human that looks like our ancestors and then I'll say "sure you go ahead and run without shoes, have fun".  They were impressive specimens that had to literally run for their lives (ie food), so they were very strong, efficient and very very lean!  I had a patient recently who was obsessed with the barefoot thing, so he insisted on running in those Nike 5-finger shoes.  Problem was, he's carrying an extra 30kgs on him and isn't strong enough.  Injuries?  For sure!!  Surprised?  Not in the least.

This is why they say only the Pro's or very fast/lightweight runners should run in "race" flats (ie minimalist shoes).  They are closer to optimal body composition (like our ancestors) and very strong and so they can get away with it.

Having said all that I'm not a fan of Nikes or any of the "supportive" shoes that prevent decent foot placement either!  It's a fine line and everyone is different, it depends on the strength/weight/running style of the individual. 

Keen to hear what Brett has to add though  Kiss Grin
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Sugar
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« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2011, 08:21:30 PM »

it's just an articl.brett, nothing to play

you other lot... i was more interested in the pigs can't hold their heads still while running  Cheesy

i don't really care about the bare foot running thing... we all know shoes are overly developed and running on foot for long distance is just foolish.
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Matthieu O’Halloran - "M@"
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« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2011, 09:54:50 PM »

Hey Sugar I definetly find that head thing interesting.

Just thinking off the top of my head Paula Radcliff and Tim Don are 2 very good runners.
And both bob their heads for rythym...
Actually I remember Chrissy had a bit of a head bob also.
Or maybe its a British thing  Roll Eyes

But seems like these days run guru's are after such perfection.
And seem to be taking the "primal" aspect out of running.
With the idea that we should be robots who are after conserving every bit of energy in technique.
Rather than on our raw run style...


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DamienC
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« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2011, 12:48:59 AM »

There is an aspect of this article that many people will overlook, and that is that they went to Africa and studied people "who had never run in shoes before".  Yes, if that is how you grew up, then yes, it is the best way to run, because your body has grown and developed in that way to handle the impact forces and stresses imposed on your body.  But for someone who has run in progressively more and more structured shoes for 20+ years, to suddenly switch to running barefoot is a recipe for disaster.  Your body just hasn't had the time to develop the necessary neural and muscular responses to handle the different forces that it'll experience.

Take Dathan Ritzenhein, arguably one of the best runners to come out of the US in the last decade.  It took him 9months to make the adjustment from being a heel striker to being a midfoot striker.  And that was only after extensive time with the biomechanics boffins at Nike, who studied him with state-of-the-art equipment, analysing everything from how his foot landed, right through to the position of his spine and head through each millisecond of his stride.  And even then they didn't stick him in minimalist shoes, but gave him inserts for his shoes and a very specific strength program for him to follow.  And remember that this was a guy who had just broken 13min for 5km, and only started making changes because he was fighting injuries to the bones of his feet.
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It's true that speed kills - it kills all those that don't have it!
doc
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« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2011, 03:26:35 AM »

2 topics
and the answer is easy
one i have ran 1/2 mARATHON IN FLIP FLOPS  OR THONGS
i have ran 2  in ugg boots  but cut downs
and ive trained at times full times with army boots
i can tell you its not about bare foot or not .
its about  the drop on the shoes  if there is no drop from the heal to  ball of foot
no  injuries , and how far you go  makes no difference .
you need some protection for road gravel and other stuiff on the road as metartasel cracks or breaks are the concern , not the cushioning .
2nd part head
i think tim don is not the runner he was because after i trained him the first time
he w2as taught to stop the head ,
and for the life of me , he cant get back that rythem .
this is what i think got him the 10 klm .
running is about rythem  even down to the 100 m
if you have a little  kink  wether head hand  or arm , i think its a natural advantage .
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rebekahkeat
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« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2011, 11:54:07 AM »

same as on the bike..my nick name is 'side saddle sally' cos i sit so crooked on my sseat.BUT after every head national coach and physio tryied to change my position over the years I would cheekily put it back to where my foot was happy...and crooked!;)Never had any issues really(except when bike shop put my new seat back too high), but again as doc says'dont fix what aint broke'...pretty good analogy!I have won 6 IM and i think around 30 half's now so guess it is working! Grin
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Sugar
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« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2011, 07:48:30 AM »

so true bekka...

most everyone wants to 'straighten' us out... but they don't understand 'we' were born that way...  Cheesy

i can a test to 'side saddle sally' when you ride behind her, don't stare, you'll start riding crooked LOL 

I laugh at someone these so called 'movement specialists' like movement U/jessi stresland, she thinks everything is a straight line. Nothing in life is a straight line. actually are bodies move better in diagonals and rotation.
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rebekahkeat
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« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2011, 12:53:40 PM »

Lady GAGA ...Born that way !! Tongue...
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kristymuir
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« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2011, 05:15:52 PM »

Like watching a chiropractor try to "fix" Scoliosis.  Hilarious!  Keep trying guys  Grin Grin Grin
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